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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
We watched this movie last night and found it deeply troubling. We are in Canada, but would like to hear some American takes on the film.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
22350 said:
I'll check it out with the wife and get back to you.....from the title I can only guess. :-\
Definitely worth a look. I am sure Michael Moore is a polarizing filmmaker from a US point of view.
 

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uncle dude said:
22350 said:
I'll check it out with the wife and get back to you.....from the title I can only guess. :-\
Definitely worth a look. I am sure Michael Moore is a polarizing filmmaker from a US point of view.
uncle dude - I'd probably follow many of your recommendations. But not this one! I'd rather use my time wisely with a couple extra hours on MYFASTGTI.COM instead of watching that move. :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
uncle dude said:
22350 said:
I'll check it out with the wife and get back to you.....from the title I can only guess. :-\
Definitely worth a look. I am sure Michael Moore is a polarizing filmmaker from a US point of view.
uncle dude - I'd probably follow many of your recommendations. But not this one! I'd rather use my time wisely with a couple extra hours on MYFASTGTI.COM instead of watching that move. :)
I understand, but I think you should pinch your nose and watch it. I would like to know, from your point of view, if it is accurate. I can speak to the issues north of the border. O0
 

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[/quote]I understand, but I think you should pinch your nose and watch it. I would like to know, from your point of view, if it is accurate. I can speak to the issues north of the border. O0
[/quote]
Michael Moore made the movie, so I'm sure it's not accurate. But I do recognize that others may feel differently. Maybe I'll watch it sometime so my argument would be more credible. There's lots of reasons why I don't want government healthcare. One is that I don't want the government to be responsible for (and eventually have authority over) my health. It amazes me that people would actually choose to let the government take control of their health. They don't do a very good job with most other programs. Why do people think things would be different with healthcare? Why would people state that the federal government did a lousy job in the wake of Katrina and in the next breath request that same government to take over their health?
P.S. I sure hope you started this thread in the right section so that Dragon or Gunny don't punish us for carrying on this conversation. ;D
 

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Michael Moore made the movie, so I'm sure it's not accurate. But I do recognize that others may feel differently. Maybe I'll watch it sometime so my argument would be more credible. There's lots of reasons why I don't want government healthcare. One is that I don't want the government to be responsible for (and eventually have authority over) my health. It amazes me that people would actually choose to let the government take control of their health. They don't do a very good job with most other programs. Why do people think things would be different with healthcare? Why would people state that the federal government did a lousy job in the wake of Katrina and in the next breath request that same government to take over their health?
P.S. I sure hope you started this thread in the right section so that Dragon or Gunny don't punish us for carrying on this conversation.
In Canada the federal government is in charge of health care, and I wouldn't want it any other way. It is the ONE topic in this country that is non partisan. Both the left and right agree that universal health care is the number one priority for Canadians. Is it perfect? Of course not. But when you are sick, no matter what the disease, you are treated no questions asked. Of course we pay more tax for the benefit, but it saves you worrying about money in times of crisis. Doesn't your government run the police force, army, education system, resource management, and the judicial system? What if all those were for profit? It seems to me health care is the only major institution that your government doesn't take care of.....? Maybe I am wrong.

In the movie a guy cut two fingers off on a table saw and had no coverage. He had to choose between his ring finger for $12,000 and his middle finger for $60,000. He couldn't afford both. The other shocking thing to me was that when you can get a policy the HMO's do their best to deny you coverage (now this is where M.Moore probably goes overboard), but I am sure it is at least partly true. This is an outrage IMO. It is about money, not helping people. At least when the government runs the system, they can be held to task via voting, who polices the HMO's? If you have money, I am sure it is a great system, but if you don't........................?

When I go to the doctor, I certainly don't feel like the government is meddling in my life - I am just glad I can speak with my doctor and see him when I want / need to. I would rather have the government run the system, than a greedy HMO.
 

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ThereÂ’s no telling how many people have lost a finger or two in an accident and made it through the rest of their life without them. Certainly it would be a hardship and require some adjustment, but itÂ’s not exactly life threatening. Assuming I had the money available, IÂ’d pay $12,000 to have my index finger reattached. But I donÂ’t know if IÂ’d spend $60,000 for my middle finger. ThatÂ’s a lot of money. Maybe I would, but if I wouldnÂ’t pay it myself, how can expect someone else to pay it for me? I wouldnÂ’t even expect my friends to chip in and pay it, so I certainly wouldnÂ’t expect total strangers (taxpayers) to pay for something that I was not willing to spend my own money on. But thatÂ’s what people would do. If the problem with healthcare is that it cost too much, passing the costs on to taxpayers is not a solution, itÂ’s just covering up the problem so itÂ’s not so obvious. It would seem that there should be some cost savings because of the sheer volume, but itÂ’s rare for the government to run a low cost social program. I donÂ’t like HMOs either, because if you have HMO healthcare, the HMO has as much, or more, say so in your health than you do. Right now I am fortunate enough to afford the PPO policy my company offers. It cost me a lot more than the HMO would, but itÂ’s worth it to me to have more control over my familyÂ’s health.

If the guy had $12,000 to pay for one finger, it seems he could have afforded a policy of some type. In the U.S. it’s pretty easy to get a job with some benefits. The cut off fingers episode shows just how crazy the program would be if Michael Moore were in charge. Does it really make sense to spend $72,000 to reattach two fingers “no questions asked”? What does the guy do for living? Does he need all his fingers to put food on the table for his family? Does he have a family? Is he already on welfare? Is he almost dead due to other issues? Did he cut his fingers off because he was drunk when he was running the table saw? But asking those type questions for the purpose of deciding what healthcare to provide would be “meddling”. And although you don’t think the government is meddling now, they will be in 40 years when you are elderly. By then cost and taxes will be out of control. They’ll have to do something, so they’ll start letting old people die. Or outright killing them. That’s where our current culture is taking us.

IÂ’m not saying the U.S. government shouldnÂ’t help anyone. They should. In fact, they do. In particular I believe it is who we refer to as the working poor that can fall through the cracks. They have a job, so they donÂ’t qualify for Medicaid (government health insurance for the poor), but they just canÂ’t seem to get over that financial hump and afford insurance. Fortunately, we have some great non-profit organizations helping the working poor. We need more of those type organizations.

When you say youÂ’re happy with the system, I believe you. But IÂ’m sure you know that not everyone is. I know a few people in Ontario, and they have told me that the doctorÂ’s offices are always full because people have no accountability for their healthcare, therefore they go see a doctor for every little thing. They said that wait time for surgery can be months. They said that people who can afford it, go to the U.S. for their healthcare.

Government can fix very few of our social problems. I hope we donÂ’t let them get their hands on our healthcare!
 

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uncle dude - I promise I didn't go looking for this. Apparently it's about a year old so maybe you've seen it, but a friend at church sent it to me just today. The story is a real life illustration of exactly what I was told by my business associates in Niagara Falls, Ontario.

 

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GTI-Well put. If anyone thinks that letting the government run a system will make it efficient or fair they are not paying attention. People need to be in control/responsible for their own health care and not expect someone else to pick up the tab. I thought that freedom,and with it responsibility, was what this nation was founded on.
Off my soap box now. ;)
 

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very interesting. in my home country of ukraine, when i was there anyway, we had free health care. you had a problem, you went to the doc and he would take care of you. it was pretty good. i spent allot of time in the hospitals with various issues. i always had real bad eye sight. they have a clinic back home, you stay there for like 2-3 weeks and they do all sorts of things and actually help you improve your eye sight. it was pretty interesting. i always had succese when i stayed there. it was all free. food was crap though, and no heat in the winter. so if you didnt die from starvation or the cold, your good O0 the facilities were not the best, but they got the job done. that was over 10 years ago though. now its more like here in the states. pay per service. im sure they still have some state run facilities, but with little funding, they are prolly pretty run down. i like the system for the most part. if you are in good health, then thats great. you can see your doc for little things whenever you want. now, if you got a surgery of any kind, boy, you better have some money saved up. my bro had his appendix removed a couple months back. the bill was over 27k. he has insurance, so we didnt have to pay nothing. but if he didnt? both the systems have their ups and downs. maybe one day someone will take the advantages of both and come up with something that is inexpensive, yet allows you to get a surgery, and not put your first born as a deposit. one day....
 
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