[crabgti]

I understand how ESP works but can it help you eliminate oversteer? Thanks

 

[BlueFrogPosse]

Oversteer? In a GTI?

Not likely the ESP would help that in a front drive. Probably could even exacerbate the problem. But, oversteer? Really?

 

[uncle dude]

I understand how ESP works but can it help you eliminate oversteer? Thanks

You probably know the definitions, but here they are anyway:

Oversteer
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oversteer
Understeer
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Understeer

 

[22350]

I tried to push it around the high speed cornering track in San Bernardino and was able to get a fair amount of rear wheel hop at less than 90mph.(This was with stock suspension of course.) I would not qualify it as oversteer because I still exited the corners where I would have with no slide on the curve. The bounce was fun though.

I would imagine it would all but disappear with a few tweaks. I suppose I was just trying to duplicate what we are so used to with rear wheel drive muscle. You really have to work at it in a GTI to come remotely close.

 

[crabgti]

Sorry I meant understeer now that I got the definitions right? Would you elaborate on the same posted question? Thanks

 

[BlueFrogPosse]

Sorry I meant understeer now that I got the definitions right? Would you elaborate on the same posted question? Thanks

Now that's a good question. I don't know a lot of the technical stuff behind suspension and handling, but (and someone correct me if I'm wrong) I'm under the impression that most of your oversteer (in rwd cars) and understeer (for the fwd's) comes from the loss of traction at the drive wheels. Take our front drive GTI's for example: if you're cornering at or near the limit of your tires' grip and attempt to accelerate, the torque imparted on the front wheels causes a little extra slip at the front, which causes the front of the car to wander out further than the rear (understeer.) The only methods available for ESP to control slip is by reducing throttle input and in some cases actuating the brakes. I'm not sure if VW's ESP actually uses the brakes, but if not then ESP does have a shot at preventing understeer. If ESP does use the brakes, it could compound the problem since braking can have a similar effect on grip as accelerating. The difference is that the brakes would be applied to all four wheels. Ultimately, a good traction control system would take this into account and proportion the braking pressure accordingly. Again, someone who knows more about these cars than I do could tell you more.

Now don't think that accelerating during a turn is bad. In fact, it's the best way I know to use these cars on the corners; but you do have to be careful to bleed off your excess speed before entering the turn. Go in slow and come out at full throttle.

 

[GTI guy]

yea, it says in my owner manual that the ESP does use the brakes. it brakes the inside back tire of the turn if it has to. or the outside front tire of the turn if it has to.

 

[Dragon]

Sorry I meant understeer now that I got the definitions right? Would you elaborate on the same posted question? Thanks

Now don't think that accelerating during a turn is bad. In fact, it's the best way I know to use these cars on the corners; but you do have to be careful to bleed off your excess speed before entering the turn. Go in slow and come out at full throttle.

Entry speed is everything ;D

The ESP program is very well done. I've tried to get it to fail in an uphill, off-camber, wet pavement situation- and it works really well.

 

[ludar]

I did a track day recently near London driving all manner of cars from Porsche 911, Jag XKR GT2, Renault Clio Cup (FWD), Formula Palmer Audi single seater, Caterham Superlights and the instructor that I had for the day actually races the new GTis.

We had spent the day learning about how every car reacts and deals with corners as the mix of cars was so diverse.

The instuctor was explaining to me that the ESP in the GTi is very intrusive and the best way of dealing with understeer (it will always have some element of understeer as it is FWD) is to feather the throttle gently as you are cornering rather than not having any power down, ensuring that all your braking is done well in advance of the corner and then to have the steering lined up as you hit the apex of the corner, you don't want the front wheels turning as you get back on to full throttle exiting the corner. Ideally after the apex your car should be lined up straight, giving the optimum line and speed through the corner with minimal understeer.

I must admit ... after that day driving those cars I was humbled

The whole day was such an eye opener as to how little I knew about driving in reality !!!

 

[paintballman]

for those of you that said oversteer was not posibble:

 

[22350]

for those of you that said oversteer was not posibble:

Thanks...saw it on the autocross thread too.

When you actually get a GTI, take it to the track (along with a video camera) and shoot some reel...I'd love to see a normal driver get loose like that.

I love that video....damn

 

[uncle dude]

I love the guy in the backseat who gets thrown around like a rag doll. >

 

[Dragon]

I love the guy in the backseat who gets thrown around like a rag doll. >

(Warning:GRAPHIC) This dude?

 

[22350]

That didn't tickle...

In a valiant attempt to keep this thread on topic:

Do you think ESP would have helped?