[GTI.MAN]

Bottom of third paragraph:

... you might think I'm nuts for wanting to invest in a car of questionable reliability ...

http://car-reviews.automobile.com/Volkswagen/review/2007-volkswagen-gti-5dr-road-test-part-i/2708/

 

[KGDeAng]

still a good review, but you always here that slight negative tone when it comes to the reliability issue

 

[camoe]

still a good review, but you always here that slight negative tone when it comes to the reliability issue

As a new VW owner and previous JapCar only driver, I'll admit I have the same reservations. You have to admit that Honda reliability spoils you and many VW mechanics I know warned me prior to my purchase. It's actually a running joke about when my first CEL comes. Honda's may have their own downsides but reliability isn't one of them. After years and years of never worrying about anything car related, it's worrisome to switch. HOWEVER, the GTI is worth whatever problems I may encounter since I'm having so much fun driving it. If this means a few trips to the dealer every once in a while....it's worth it. It will take years for VW to rid itself of reliability issues...get used to it cause it isn't going away.

Cheers

 

[jgo]

still a good review, but you always here that slight negative tone when it comes to the reliability issue

As a new VW owner and previous JapCar only driver, I'll admit I have the same reservations. You have to admit that Honda reliability spoils you and many VW mechanics I know warned me prior to my purchase. It's actually a running joke about when my first CEL comes. Honda's may have their own downsides but reliability isn't one of them. After years and years of never worrying about anything car related, it's worrisome to switch. HOWEVER, the GTI is worth whatever problems I may encounter since I'm having so much fun driving it. If this means a few trips to the dealer every once in a while....it's worth it. It will take years for VW to rid itself of reliability issues...get used to it cause it isn't going away.

Cheers

Including Acura, I have owned 8 Hondas. They may be the best car in the world but they aren't perfect either. They have been having transmission issues for the past several years.

 

[camoe]

[/quote]

Including Acura, I have owned 8 Hondas. They may be the best car in the world but they aren't perfect either. They have been having transmission issues for the past several years.
[/quote]

True, there have been issues with auto transmissions in Some Honda products. I always had manual hondas. so I didn't care. The difference is really the electrical issues, soft codes, CELs. Annoying shit that Hondas and others don't really have. Although 90% of VW problems won't keep you off the road, the number of problems reported for VWs are huge. Unfortunately, the impressions create in the press and public does not include details such as most of the problems are minor. Consumer reports and other rags consider a problem, as a problem no matter how insignificant. The public sees it this way due to the inevitable herd/lemming nature and walo! In truth, I can count a number of people who have owned Japanese cars with the same story, "all I did was change the oil, fill it up, and it ran forever". I can't think of any VW/Audi owners with a similar story (Domestic for that matter as well). Of course, I can't think of any Accord owners having this much fun driving either....and that's whats most important.

Peace!

 

[jgo]

I'll have to wait and see but I can tell you this much: I bought mine on July 1, 2006 and have put 26,000 miles on it, already. Not one problem, not one!

Cars I have bought new prior ot the VW: 1970 Camaro, 1972 Olds 442, 1973 Olds Delta 88 Convertable, 1976 Olds Delta 88, 1977 Mercury Grand Marquis, 1978 Honda Civic, 1978 Honda Accord LX, 1981 Honda Accord, 1983 Honda Civic, 1983 Honda Prelude, 1985 Toyota truck, 1985 Mazda RX-7, 1986 Hyundai, 1987 Hyundai, 1989 Ford T-Bird SC, 1989 Ford Probe, 1994 Lexus ES300, 1995 Chevrolet S-10, 1996 Dodge RAM1500 4x4, 1996 Chrysler Sebring, 1999 Lincoln Navigator, 2000 Acura TL, 2003 Dodge RAM 2500 4x4, 2004 Honda Pilot.

My GTI is the very 1st. vehicle that I haven't been disgusted with after a few months. Not one problem, not one.

 

[camoe]

I'll have to wait and see but I can tell you this much: I bought mine on July 1, 2006 and have put 26,000 miles on it, already. Not one problem, not one!

Cars I have bought new prior ot the VW: 1970 Camaro, 1972 Olds 442, 1973 Olds Delta 88 Convertable, 1976 Olds Delta 88, 1977 Mercury Grand Marquis, 1978 Honda Civic, 1978 Honda Accord LX, 1981 Honda Accord, 1983 Honda Civic, 1983 Honda Prelude, 1985 Toyota truck, 1985 Mazda RX-7, 1986 Hyundai, 1987 Hyundai, 1989 Ford T-Bird SC, 1989 Ford Probe, 1994 Lexus ES300, 1995 Chevrolet S-10, 1996 Dodge RAM1500 4x4, 1996 Chrysler Sebring, 1999 Lincoln Navigator, 2000 Acura TL, 2003 Dodge RAM 2500 4x4, 2004 Honda Pilot.

My GTI is the very 1st. vehicle that I haven't been disgusted with after a few months. Not one problem, not one.

That's great to hear. Looks like you may have gotten one of those Honda models that had the bad transmission? Was the ES300 reliable?

Cheers

 

[jgo]

The Lexus was a very nice car. A few bugs, but they were fixed by the dealer. Lexus service is the best. Great car but I gave it to my wife when I bought a boat and a truck to pull it with. She traded it on a Chrysler. I have never let her live it down. The Chrysler was junk.

 

[zulu]

Of course you're going to have CEL issues. Cars only get more electronic year after year. Why do you think VAG-COM exist in the first place.

If I get a code (which I haven't) I can clear it myself. Now my sisters MKIV Jetta thats had a couple codes pop up nothing serious though.

 

[camoe]

Of course you're going to have CEL issues. Cars only get more electronic year after year. Why do you think VAG-COM exist in the first place.

If I get a code (which I haven't) I can clear it myself. Now my sisters MKIV Jetta thats had a couple codes pop up nothing serious though.

A honda owner would never say, "of course you're going to have CEL issues." I've actually never seen a CEL before and I'm not young.

If you think it's not possible to make a car without CELs because of the complexity and/or amount of electronics...you're wrong. It's very possible to do, but requires alot more engineering/time/money/etc.

Peace

 

[deviltailedfast]

WTF is a CEL?

 

[10bv01]

Check Engine Light

 

[deviltailedfast]

doh, thanks. :-[

 

[BlueFrogPosse]

If you think it's not possible to make a car without CELs because of the complexity and/or amount of electronics...you're wrong. It's very possible to do, but requires alot more engineering/time/money/etc.

Peace

I see where you're going with this, but have to play the devil's advocate for a second. No matter how much time and money you throw at designing a car, you can never get 100% reliability out of any, let alone every, part. Now that we have fuel injection, ECU's, OBD-whatevers, and catalytic converters, there are just plain more parts in a modern car. More parts means more places things can go wrong. I'll give you that engineering has improved along with the development of these systems, and using high-quality (usually more expensive parts) can reduce the occurrence of CEL's. Fact is, the technology we use in cars today has provided literally thousands of new ways to break them. Not to mention the fact that the diagnostics systems are so sensitive now you can get a CEL hundreds of miles before something actually goes wrong.

 

[10bv01]

If you think it's not possible to make a car without CELs because of the complexity and/or amount of electronics...you're wrong. It's very possible to do, but requires alot more engineering/time/money/etc.

Peace

I see where you're going with this, but have to play the devil's advocate for a second. No matter how much time and money you throw at designing a car, you can never get 100% reliability out of any, let alone every, part. Now that we have fuel injection, ECU's, OBD-whatevers, and catalytic converters, there are just plain more parts in a modern car. More parts means more places things can go wrong. I'll give you that engineering has improved along with the development of these systems, and using high-quality (usually more expensive parts) can reduce the occurrence of CEL's. Fact is, the technology we use in cars today has provided literally thousands of new ways to break them. Not to mention the fact that the diagnostics systems are so sensitive now you can get a CEL hundreds of miles before something actually goes wrong.

Indeed

I agree bluefrogposse, NO car has PERFECT reliability.

 

[BlueFrogPosse]

Just think how many people would be out of a job if they could.

 

[camoe]

If you think it's not possible to make a car without CELs because of the complexity and/or amount of electronics...you're wrong. It's very possible to do, but requires alot more engineering/time/money/etc.

Peace

I see where you're going with this, but have to play the devil's advocate for a second. No matter how much time and money you throw at designing a car, you can never get 100% reliability out of any, let alone every, part. Now that we have fuel injection, ECU's, OBD-whatevers, and catalytic converters, there are just plain more parts in a modern car. More parts means more places things can go wrong. I'll give you that engineering has improved along with the development of these systems, and using high-quality (usually more expensive parts) can reduce the occurrence of CEL's. Fact is, the technology we use in cars today has provided literally thousands of new ways to break them. Not to mention the fact that the diagnostics systems are so sensitive now you can get a CEL hundreds of miles before something actually goes wrong.

While I agree that it is difficult to eliminate any possibility of error/CEL/etc, and no system is %100 fool proof, it is possible to reduce the amount of soft codes/errors/CELs through better parts/engineering/etc. What is really required is much more beta testing, better shielding from EMI, more frequent checksums, more stable power supplys, the list goes on.

My point is that VW and Mercedes for that matter both have had historys of an inordinate amount of electrical problems...both manufacturers are improving this but still, other manufacturers have spent more time on these types of problems and as a result, the cars are a bit more reliable on the electronics side. Even VW admitted a host of eletrical issues that they were trying to eliminate/reduce. What this tells me is that with more testing/money, VW can fix the issues and it has improved over the last few years. So it's possible to eliminate/reduce the problems significantly.

I happen to install/repair/modify 300KV electron particle beams for a living. Basically, I work with the most advanced manufacturing technology available. This coupled with hosts of different computers/software/programs/EEPROMS/etc all communictating together and monitoring eachothers subsystems. A car's electronics/hardware/software systems are nowhere as complex yet we manage to make the system far more reliable than most cars today. It's possible to get much better and VW says they are trying. So, in a nutshell, I'll never accept that "CELs are just something you have to deal with."

If we think that todays cars are complex, wait for 15 years and let me tell you, you all aint seen nothin yet. With that being the case, car manufacturers better get on the ball as it isn't getting less complicated.

Peacae

 

[yee]

still a good review, but you always here that slight negative tone when it comes to the reliability issue

As a new VW owner and previous JapCar only driver, I'll admit I have the same reservations. You have to admit that Honda reliability spoils you and many VW mechanics I know warned me prior to my purchase. It's actually a running joke about when my first CEL comes. Honda's may have their own downsides but reliability isn't one of them. After years and years of never worrying about anything car related, it's worrisome to switch. HOWEVER, the GTI is worth whatever problems I may encounter since I'm having so much fun driving it. If this means a few trips to the dealer every once in a while....it's worth it. It will take years for VW to rid itself of reliability issues...get used to it cause it isn't going away.

Cheers

Including Acura, I have owned 8 Hondas. They may be the best car in the world but they aren't perfect either. They have been having transmission issues for the past several years.

yeah dude my friends mom went through 4 transmissions in a tl type s. ended up getting a new tl cuz of the lemon law

 

[BlueFrogPosse]

I doubt a significant number of faults in a production automobile are caused by lack of checksums or EMI, and only a few more due to unstable power supplies. I'm gonna go ahead and guess that the largest number of CELs occur because of a combination two things. a) sensor malfunctions (carbon buildup, overheat, mechanical failure, etc) and b) emissions standards requiring tighter tolerances on control measures. Just because the CEL comes on doesn't necessarily mean something has failed. Lets say your 2.0 gets a combustion rich condition because of excessive carbon buildup on an O2 sensor. Now take that same engine, delete fuel injection and emissions control, insert carburator, and you'll have a perfectly running engine again. Nothing wrong, but because of the complexity that's necessary in modern automotive engineering, the great state of California here would want to scrap the whole thing and make the owner walk home in his all-natural, seal-safe sandals.

 

[KarmaKing]

CEL's are useless. My Jeep Grand Cherokee has had the CEL on the entire 5 years I've owned the car and there have been no problems. Now, if I got in one day and it wasn't on, I'd be worried. I think the CEL is set at hyper sensitivity as a perk to the dealers to get you to take the car in.